The Game Box

Gaming Stuff => Military Games => Topic started by: LuckyDiceRolls on July 09, 2014, 12:56:12 pm



Title: the advantages of creating wargame boards from layers of cardboard
Post by: LuckyDiceRolls on July 09, 2014, 12:56:12 pm
in this thread you will see why custom-created wargame boards made out of many many layers of cardboard cut-out and then glued together is far far superior to ANY form of flat map game

hopefully I will be able to post pictures of this process of making these finely-detailed 3D models

I am working on my second one right now and it is almost finished

this one I am making now is only ten layers of cardboard thick, but it shows the topography so well, and gives such a pleasing bird-eye view of the terrain, that basically, it makes all other forms of wargaming obsolete, at least in my opinion

and I have no bloddy bloody knives to speak of, either!

wish me luck on posting pictures
(http://s716.photobucket.com/user/lambentdream/media/wargame%20shots/PC160032.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1)
http://s716.photobucket.com/user/lambentdream/media/wargame%20shots/PC160032.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1 (http://s716.photobucket.com/user/lambentdream/media/wargame%20shots/PC160032.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1)


Title: Re: the advantages of creating wargame boards from layers of cardboard
Post by: sparty on July 09, 2014, 03:52:04 pm
I'd love to see something like this for a game like Battle Above the Clouds.  It'd really drive home the pain of the terrain (in Spain?) in Tenn!


Title: Re: the advantages of creating wargame boards from layers of cardboard
Post by: LuckyDiceRolls on July 09, 2014, 06:24:39 pm
well I dont know what that is but I guess it could work

here is a picture of the first wargame board, after it had been painted
http://s716.photobucket.com/user/lambentdream/media/wargame%20shots/PC300019.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2 (http://s716.photobucket.com/user/lambentdream/media/wargame%20shots/PC300019.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2)
I should have stopped here
I went ahead and planted too many q-tip trees, it made maneuver almost impossible


Title: Re: the advantages of creating wargame boards from layers of cardboard
Post by: sparty on July 09, 2014, 06:28:37 pm
Looks great!  Well done.


Title: Re: the advantages of creating wargame boards from layers of cardboard
Post by: LuckyDiceRolls on July 11, 2014, 09:16:54 am
thanks dude, it was fun making that first board
here is a picture of it when it was finished, except for the houses

(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww167/lambentdream/wargame%20shots/P1130009.jpg)][URL=http://s716.photobucket.com/user/lambentdream/media/wargame%20shots/P1130009.jpg.html] (http://[URL=http://s716.photobucket.com/user/lambentdream/media/wargame%20shots/P1130009.jpg.html)


Title: Re: the advantages of creating wargame boards from layers of cardboard
Post by: LuckyDiceRolls on July 12, 2014, 05:29:04 pm
now there were several problems with this first board
I did not cover up the sides of the corrugated cardboard, so the hills looked terrible.  it was a good try but I also wound up planting too many trees
also the process should start from the bottom most layer of cardboard, and with this first board I began at the tops of the hills.  as a result there was some warping between the areas of hilly terrain

so, I set out to improve the idea.
I chose another good location in Pennsylvania and found an excellent topo map of the battle of germantown

here is the first picture of this new board, showing how I used long thin strips of paper to cover up the sides of EACH contour line

(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww167/lambentdream/P2240015.jpg) (http://s716.photobucket.com/user/lambentdream/media/P2240015.jpg.html)


Title: Re: the advantages of creating wargame boards from layers of cardboard
Post by: Calandale on July 12, 2014, 06:08:52 pm
Contours never worked for me. Oh, they're better than just a piece of felt
I guess, but I wanted natural slopes. With the contours, I might as well
be playing chits on a map.


Title: Re: the advantages of creating wargame boards from layers of cardboard
Post by: LuckyDiceRolls on July 13, 2014, 02:53:43 pm
I dont see how there is any better way.  and even your flat, store-bought game mats have topo lines printed on them, but this way more realistic

anyway, here is what the second board looked like as I was finishing up the road net
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww167/lambentdream/P6260012.jpg) (http://s716.photobucket.com/user/lambentdream/media/P6260012.jpg.html)


Title: Re: the advantages of creating wargame boards from layers of cardboard
Post by: Calandale on July 13, 2014, 06:40:41 pm
Some examples. Not the best I've seen (by far) but better:

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Mo6m2xs6ZzY/SNGtkU7cG3I/AAAAAAAAABs/_zrTjJbmx8s/s1600/mod_board.jpg)



(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZYM3fdG9Yf8/USixtgIPxZI/AAAAAAAABGM/Ch1BsV0dKhc/s1600/IMG_0109.JPG)

(http://www.kallistra.co.uk/images/frontpagerun.gif)

For me, better terrain than I'm showing (and I've played on better) is the sine qua non of bothering
with minis at all. If I can't have the full visual, boardgames are better in every way.


Title: Re: the advantages of creating wargame boards from layers of cardboard
Post by: anarchy on July 14, 2014, 05:26:12 pm
I've seen a few maps modified by players to have elevated hexes to provide a 2.5D experience.



Title: Re: the advantages of creating wargame boards from layers of cardboard
Post by: anarchy on July 14, 2014, 05:53:41 pm
And a little papercrafting made Pacific Rim heroclix _much_ better:

(http://www.zeroradiusgames.com/img/pr_heroclix_01.jpg)


Title: Re: the advantages of creating wargame boards from layers of cardboard
Post by: LuckyDiceRolls on July 17, 2014, 06:56:32 am
those are some interesting terrains
I liked the city scape one with the paper skyscrapers
did you make that?  from scratch?
anyway, I hope to prove that 3D boards made from layers of cardboard are superior to all other forms of wargame boards
I will post more pictures of this board I am making as they become available


Title: Re: the advantages of creating wargame boards from layers of cardboard
Post by: Rockhopper on July 17, 2014, 11:40:09 am
those are some interesting terrains
I liked the city scape one with the paper skyscrapers
did you make that?  from scratch?
anyway, I hope to prove that 3D boards made from layers of cardboard are superior to all other forms of wargame boards
I will post more pictures of this board I am making as they become available

Really neat stuff, but you'll have to work pretty hard to prove them "superior to all other forms of wargame boards."

1. Storage.
2. Many people have no problem visualizing contours on maps, so actually having real contours adds no benefit. After all, I am perfectly fine with flat counters with numbers on them, in lieu of a bunch of little dudes.


Title: Re: the advantages of creating wargame boards from layers of cardboard
Post by: anarchy on July 17, 2014, 12:50:29 pm
those are some interesting terrains
I liked the city scape one with the paper skyscrapers
did you make that?  from scratch?
Yeah, I made the skyscrapers in Illustrator. They are pretty basic designs, graphically, but they really help the board pop. For miniature games, 3d terrain is a must.


Title: Re: the advantages of creating wargame boards from layers of cardboard
Post by: LuckyDiceRolls on July 17, 2014, 02:33:17 pm
point of order -
henceforth and due to this forum's literal obsession with acronyms,
I will be referring to my multi-layered cardboard 3D wargame boards
as: M.L.C.W.B.'s

And now I must contend, that M.L.C.W.B.'s are the ONLY way
in which one can be sure of line-of-sight between units

you cant visualize line of sight.  it must be portrayed with a string
or thread
stretched between the firing unit and the target

you just cant do that on a flat board
its a process of 3D geometry which cannot be resolved using a two dimensional map


Title: Re: the advantages of creating wargame boards from layers of cardboard
Post by: Calandale on July 17, 2014, 03:52:42 pm


And now I must contend, that M.L.C.W.B.'s are the ONLY way
in which one can be sure of line-of-sight between units

you cant visualize line of sight.  it must be portrayed with a string
or thread
stretched between the firing unit and the target


This ONLY works if the scale of terrain is the same as that of the minis. That is very seldom the case.


Title: Re: the advantages of creating wargame boards from layers of cardboard
Post by: LuckyDiceRolls on July 17, 2014, 06:13:55 pm
well yeah, kinda
I mean, it would be great if the vehicles were to scale exactly but they cant be, not if youre going to have a board which you can reach across.
however, the players assume that the vehicle is actually at an agreed-upon spot on the model itself
I always used the centerpoint of the front edge
but yes, not everything is to scale
but I still do intend to prove that this type of wargame board is the most suitable and interesting kind of wargame platform there is
the level of detail is what makes it so
youll see


Title: Re: the advantages of creating wargame boards from layers of cardboard
Post by: Rockhopper on July 18, 2014, 06:52:10 am
And now I must contend, that M.L.C.W.B.'s are the ONLY way
in which one can be sure of line-of-sight between units

you cant visualize line of sight.  it must be portrayed with a string
or thread
stretched between the firing unit and the target

you just cant do that on a flat board
its a process of 3D geometry which cannot be resolved using a two dimensional map

To the extent that the games I play require it... yes I can.

And if we're going to obsess on LOS, then you'll need to integrate weather, ground foliage, and smoke to your map.

Everything, EVERYTHING in a wargame is an abstracted reduction in complexity from The Real Thing. To say that "a process of 3D geometry... cannot be resolved using a two dimensional map" is just silly.

Firing a bullet is a process of physics, and we resolve it just fine with dice.



Title: Re: the advantages of creating wargame boards from layers of cardboard
Post by: LuckyDiceRolls on July 18, 2014, 12:15:03 pm
I wouldnt say I was obsessed with line-of-sight rules
it is merely one of the aspects of wargaming which is best represented with a three-dimensional board
besides this and the overall visual appeal of the finished 3D board, they also lend themselves better to planning an attack, calculating the time to get to certain areas, determining where your helicopters are safe from the enemy, and especially during air-drops of paratroopers.

currently am finishing up these little forest-boxes, which took far longer than I thought.  about two weeks so far, just for the forests


Title: Re: the advantages of creating wargame boards from layers of cardboard
Post by: Carl Marl on July 19, 2014, 06:58:29 pm
All that cardboard layered up must be rather heavy. Any idea how much that weighs?


Title: Re: the advantages of creating wargame boards from layers of cardboard
Post by: LuckyDiceRolls on July 20, 2014, 06:56:14 am
good question
well, the first one I made was solid cardboard, and it wound up weighing in at around thirty five or farty pounds

so I decided that this new one would be hollow

and it really is hollow

I spent literally HOURS carving out those eight sheets of cardboard, and once the contour lines were cut, I removed all the unneeded cardboard

so it weights only about six or seven pounds I would say

the tiny forest boxes are finally FINISHED (YAY) and I am now gluing them on the board

new pictures coming soon


Title: Re: the advantages of creating wargame boards from layers of cardboard
Post by: LuckyDiceRolls on July 21, 2014, 02:10:38 pm
the forest boxes are now glued to the board and new pictures should be up any day now


Title: Re: the advantages of creating wargame boards from layers of cardboard
Post by: LuckyDiceRolls on July 21, 2014, 03:53:37 pm
well for those who care about carefully-crafted homemade terrain, my second wargame board is almost finished

the little forest-boxes are all glued to the board and they represent only the heavy forests, in which tank movement is restricted.

you can lift the lids of the forest boxes, to conceal units.  the lids dont fall off though, they have hinges

the last steps will be making about fifty trees to top the hills, representing light forests

looks pretty good in my opinion, and extremely playable
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww167/lambentdream/P7210019.jpg) (http://s716.photobucket.com/user/lambentdream/media/P7210019.jpg.html)


Title: Re: the advantages of creating wargame boards from layers of cardboard
Post by: resQscooter on July 26, 2014, 10:10:46 am
I would play on those!  What game(s) are you doing on them?


Title: Re: the advantages of creating wargame boards from layers of cardboard
Post by: LuckyDiceRolls on July 27, 2014, 01:05:23 pm
thank you kindsir

its for a modern-era company or battalion-level army game using miniatures from ghq