The Game Box

**** this place

Heh :) The url was to a desktop location just fyi.

What?

I know they have issued some revised charts or tables (I believe) but everyone has said it was a good game. I haven't had a chance to follow it lately.

What seems broken about it?

No ****! If I can't post pics that I create than this site is worthless.

Fair enough. If you ever do want to use simple offsite hosting though then imgur is great.

http://imgur.com

 :o

Pic test


(http://www.islands.com/files/imagecache/enlarged_image/_images/201301/01_queen_angel_islands_caribbean_snorkeling_fish.jpg)

I've been hearing a few negatives about The Dark Valley. Pity.

It looked UGLY.

Make sure to bring some buddies.

Wouldn't want this place to become as lame as BGG.

It could do with a better map/counter contrast I'll give you that. The map is a bit weak...can't think of what but it reminds me of something else.

...

Doesn't work here.

Unless you're afraid to speak because it makes you seem like an idiot.

The sponge defense. Unbeatable. This is the end of turn 2. Never seen a German player last more than 4 or 5 turns against this.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/2082488/billyboy?size=large\
The ability to post images here completely eludes me. Every other site I've ever used (lots!) allows you to browse and upload images.

Uploading is VERY easy.

Use the Reply button, additional options->attach file.

Getting things embedded is a little trickier. You need to actually insert the URL into the bb code.

Test 3:

(http://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic2082488.png)

Success!

(http://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic2082488_lg.png)

Ok, so what did you just do?...cause I'm looking at the map...

Embedded image works.

Anyway back on topic, yeah that does seem a problem if that strategy works all the time.

So is the sponge defense just laying out the Russians so they're two-three hexes deep all along the line?

Basically. Defense in depth. Only stack where you can get defensive benefits against Luftwaffe attacks (for the most part).

I've fiddled with the rules a bit, but this makes me concerned.  I'm surprised there's no "overrun" or breakthrough rules that allow you knock big chinks into that armor.  Incidentally, they spend A LOT of time in the rulebook talking about encirclement, but it appears that you were able to create a contiguous front.  Is that a specific scenario you're playing or is it really that hard for the Germans to encircle the Russians in this game?

This is the start of Barbarossa. The Russians can do this every time if played correctly. We've watched quite a few newbies play the Russians and they generally form a single line and run away when the Germans punch through it.  If the Russian defends in depth and plays smart the Germans will be in for a world of hurt.

The Russians can't set up that way though - at the start of Barbarossa the vast majority of them have to start in the red border regions.  Some can get out and start joining the few units in the interior and the reinforcements that start coming in, but most will be destroyed and encircled by the Germans.  Usually, the German assault will start to run out of steam where it historically did - on the road to Moscow.  The Germans usually need to either skip Leningrad entirely and focus on Moscow and driving toward the Caucasus to have much of a chance to get the points they need.  If the Russians overload too many units to the north the Germans can go after points in the southern interior to keep the offensive alive.

The picture is the end of turn 2 and I assure you the Russians can do it every time. Many, many plays. I was a play tester of the game.

So what is it about Dark Valley that makes this defence work in contrast to other games at a similar scale?

I use this def. I consider all the Russian units in the pink areas at start to be lost what you see here are a few stragglers and the first two turns reinforcements

The picture I posted was from your game Mr septimusrex    ;D

Ok, I think I'm going to officially steer clear of this one.

Too late for me. Time to hit BGG market place.

Disappointing to say the least if it's true.  Had some high hopes for Dark Valley.  Seemed pretty manageable overall.

The game is fun and has several easy fixes to make playable. would not get rid of it yet.
anyone going to WBC in Lancaster PA next week?

What fixes are those? I haven't picked this up yet, but it looks interesting.

I'm a bit surprised with Racier. 'Case Yellow' also drew quite a bit of flak.

As did Stalins War and Barbarossa to Berlin

I was going to say... I feel like Racier's games have a reputation for being a bit broken a lot of the time.

problems
1.fragile zoc for Germans.  German corps lose zocs when flipped making easy for Russians to punch holes this is bad later in game
2.russians build up units and ZOCs to  fast allowing layered defense
3. chit pulls are to random  difficult to execute your plan even if all your chits come up in a row probable wrong order
4.  only 1,2 pz hq getting second move

combat Zhukov was put in as the only way to stop me in case blue scenario from destroying Germans

solutions
1. corps keep zoc when flipped
2. until turn 5 all Russian 5-4 armies arrived flipped and can be built up when industrial production begins. all 5-4s turn 5 and after are full strength
3. active player chooses his first chit(s) per rules others set aside and a national control marker put in draw pile when your national marker drawn you choose which chit to play
4. player gets to choose which two pz hq get extra move with no restrictions  most likely 2,3 pz hq in center
other changes
1German pz, except SS, loose zoc and mech gain zoc German pz could not keep pockets closed not enough infantry in them had to get in div to help
2German air  attacks anywhere during attack chit but only within command range of a pz hg during its attack phase when they are drawn
3German  air may attack same hex as ground attack BEFORE ground attack made
4CRT change  there is no reason for a German OOS stack not to attack at 6-1 worst result DR  change  when you have a die modifier that takes you off top of your chart you go to top of next lower chart if -1 or -2
5 one unit attacks all corps and army level units are exempt from this rule   German inf corps may attack alone as can Russia inf armies

these are some of major revisions we are looking at  I think the game is fun to play and worth considering

So does PoG, from an historical perspective though.

Anyone going to WBC in Lancaster we could have  ftf?