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31  General Category / Fuck it all / Re: Religion on: July 22, 2014, 03:03:24 am
And that's why they hate it.
Talking about the Lord is like shining a spotlight on their sins. It makes them uncomfortable and all too aware.

So being mocked for your Christianity is bad, but having a little dig at atheists is what?

Accusations of sin don't make atheists feel uncomfortable since without religion there is no concept of sin. Note this isn't an invitation to point out lack of morals which seems to be the common direction when this topic comes up.

I get your point about feeling like you can't mention your Christianity without being mocked/ridiculed but that goes for all sorts of beliefs. You can either engage in conversation with those willing to and ignore the attacks, or you can just whine.
32  General Category / Fuck it all / Re: Religion on: July 22, 2014, 02:52:19 am
The public office thing is really odd though, I always thought the US was supposed to have a strict separation between church and state unlike the UK where it is all very much tied up. It really should be the other way around.
33  General Category / Fuck it all / Re: Religion on: July 22, 2014, 02:50:09 am
What about being ineligible to hold public office - not for any legal reason, but just because you couldn't get elected as an atheist?

What about being basically excluded from polite society? It would happen in some towns I know.
Of course, that same goes the other way, as is being evidenced in this very thread.

Yeah this is where we really are from very different countries. Over here rarely does declaring atheism even raise an eyebrow, though there probably are some very small communities where it might be more of an issue.

You are more likely to cause controversy announcing your faith as say a politician here, which I seem to recall happening not long ago with David Cameron's talk of our "Christian country". I think there was something similar with Blair. There is certainly no ineligibility for atheists to hold public office as there is in the US.

So yes I'm wrong with regards to the US.
34  General Category / Fuck it all / Re: Religion on: July 21, 2014, 06:50:53 pm
It's a strange phenomena. The majority in the US ARE Christian (though maybe not too devout?).
I am a Christian, but I suck at it. Tongue


Which side feels more threatened by the other? And WHY?
A good question.
But I see Christianity (and Christians in particular) being attacked/ mocked/ ridiculed everywhere. Not Islam or Confucianism or not Sikhs or Buddhists... just the Christians. People are afraid to announce their Christianity because they fear being mocked/ ridiculed/ discriminated against because of it.
Hell, if one claims to be a Christian, they are immediately labeled as a "homophobe" ... just like when a person announces they are a conservative, they get immediately labeled a "racist", etc. ad nauseum.

I don't know, in the uk at least there certainly seems to be more attacking of Islam for one, and more privilege afforded to any religion over any kind of non belief. Of course I can't speak for other countries. Are there not large parts of the US where atheism is a dirty word also?
35  General Category / Fuck it all / Re: Religion on: July 21, 2014, 06:40:36 pm
I'm a Christian.
So, like many other places, I will be made fun of here, ridiculed, mocked, and insulted.



It's a strange phenomena. The majority in the US ARE Christian (though maybe not too devout?).
Yet, on the web and in academia, it almost has to be hidden - whereas it is nearly impossible to
be elected to statewide office anywhere as an atheist.

Which side feels more threatened by the other? And WHY?

I think the theist has a stronger reaction to criticism of their beliefs because religion is so tied up with who a person is. It's so much a part of their everyday life, or at least that is how I understand it. I can't think of many things that would upset me as an atheist (going to stick with that as shorthand for now at least). I've been told I'm going to hell....which obviously isn't a concern of mine. I've been told I have no morals which I've always found amusing more than anything. Non belief is a lot harder to ridicule.
36  General Category / Fuck it all / Re: Religion on: July 21, 2014, 06:10:32 pm
"God doesn't play Twilight Struggle" ?
37  General Category / Fuck it all / Re: Religion on: July 21, 2014, 05:55:25 pm
Yeah. I'm pretty much a complete skeptic. I see the basic survival assumptions
(causality for example) as matters of faith, so I'm coming from a pretty extreme
point of view.

I get closer to that when my anxiety kicks in, not sure I like it though.


My common existence is not easy. Driving thought away is the only means of survival.
Gaming does that. So does drinking. Or spamming.

Yeah I have similar coping activities when anxiety hits, which thankfully I seem to manage a little more effectively than I used to.


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People tell me atheism means I believe there is no God, which by definition isn't true, atheism is my lack of belief in god which is a different thing.



So, how is that any different from agnosticism? And what do we call those people, who self-identify as atheists,
but truly just seem to believe that there is no god? Oh, they may put some cover that "of course we can't know,"
but then proceed to attack the very idea as absurd. Reality itself is absurd - thus Tertullian's misappropriation.

Well if agnosticism is the position where the existence or non existence of god is deemed unknowable, isn't the lack of belief in god a consequence of that rather than it being the same thing? But yes this does rather lead to the inevitable fact that the strict definition of atheism is a bit pointless. If we are going to use strictly defined definitions then maybe we need less flawed ones?

I think I had it right as a child and I should just go back to "I don't believe in god".

Quote
Quote
However once I've started thinking about it, is it a lack of belief? Can I actually have a lack of belief about something I am consciously thinking about or do I deep down just believe it isn't true?

You've hit on it here. Belief is belief. You can 'not believe' in the sense of having no real opinion
on the matter. Science as a whole does not believe in god; it is agnostic - makes no statements
which can help to answer the question. But, once you have an opinion on the likelihood, you are
entering the realm of faith. Once you start thinking that it is actually HARD to believe, you are
actively disbelieving.

I'm pretty close to simply not believing. I does largely have no impact on my life, and I rarely think about it except when discussing with other people. The fact that I need a label is only because people claim it, therefore as someone who doesn't have any belief in it I label myself as such when questioned.

Quote
Quote
I guess I could start using the term agnostic atheist but then I'd have to explain even more when someone asks me.


Whereas EVERYONE seems to know what agnostic means. The water has only been muddied
by modern atheists, realizing the stronger version of their credo is essentially indefensible,
have squatted into agnosticism - but still are often as rigidly dogmatic as the older version.
They try and hide their faith, because that too seems ridiculous.

Ha, point.

I was quite interested in the modern atheist books, discussions, etc and I've read quite a lot over the years but I've found myself less and less interested as it's turned from interesting discussion to name calling and point scoring. I've no interest in changing peoples opinions, and I've no interest in ridiculing other positions which seems to be what that great surge of books and media on the subject seems to have caused.

I think there is still room for discussion though, and also a need where religious privillage still exists. I get particularly annoyed about the state funded faith school system in this country and if nothing else all the tubthumping has highlighted stuff like that.

38  General Category / Fuck it all / Re: Religion on: July 21, 2014, 03:25:53 pm
Yeah. I'm pretty much a complete skeptic. I see the basic survival assumptions
(causality for example) as matters of faith, so I'm coming from a pretty extreme
point of view.

I get closer to that when my anxiety kicks in, not sure I like it though.

Not for me. I've always seen the atheist attempt to suborn what agnosticism actually is defined as
as somewhat dishonest. Too often it feels that the atheist is straddling the fence: claiming that obviously
one cannot KNOW that there is no supernatural behind it all, but at the same time regularly mocking any
belief that there is. I wouldn't want to be associated with that kind of behavior.

I think it's more because of the way people use the labels to describe themselves, rather than the strict definitions. It's a confusing subject once I start thinking about it, once you start poking at the term atheism does it even make sense?

People tell me atheism means I believe there is no God, which by definition isn't true, atheism is my lack of belief in god which is a different thing. However once I've started thinking about it, is it a lack of belief? Can I actually have a lack of belief about something I am consciously thinking about or do I deep down just believe it isn't true?

I guess I could start using the term agnostic atheist but then I'd have to explain even more when someone asks me.
39  General Category / Fuck it all / Re: Religion on: July 21, 2014, 01:16:07 pm
I am and have been an atheist for most of my life and I'm probably closest to a humanist where any sort of philosophy is concerned.

I kind of get your point on agnosticism but I can't simply say I have no reason to believe there isn't a god. If I go down that path then I have no reason to believe there isn't anything anyone cares to tell me they believe in that cannot be proven. I guess it's the science background, but my reasoning is generally along the lines of there being no evidence for the existence of a god or gods that the likelihood of their existence is so small that it can safely be ignored along with lots of other things unless new evidence appears.

The atheism/agnosticism thing seems much more of a sliding scale than a distinct separation of ideas.
40  Gaming Stuff / General Gaming Discussion / Re: Newb. on: July 21, 2014, 11:13:44 am
I'd also recommend something from th Men of Iron series if the period interests you at all. They aren't overly complex games but they have a really nice flow to them. I've recently been playing Blood & Roses which I really like, but I love the movement in Infidel, a very cinematic kind of battle emerges.
41  Gaming Stuff / General Gaming Discussion / Re: Newb. on: July 21, 2014, 11:08:47 am
US is a very good game. The smaller scenarios are comparable to a stripped down No Retreat.

An easy way to decide if you're ready for it would be to make a PnP copy of Unconditional Surrender: Case Blue.



How long do the smaller scenarios take to play roughly?

I keep eyeing this one. I have the pnp game so I'm going to give that a go before I decide.
42  Gaming Stuff / Other Games / Re: Strategy PC Games on: July 20, 2014, 06:41:42 pm
I've been having a lot of fun with Commander: The Great War. It's pretty light hex stuff, kind of a grand panzer general type game for WW1. I believe the ipad version is nearing release.

Also Unity of Command is well worth a look, can be had very cheap and on sale quite often.
43  Gaming Stuff / Military Games / Re: American Civil War Gaming - General Discussion on: July 20, 2014, 06:24:54 pm
... And my dictionary just gives strange translations for 'fluke'...

Definitely not the "fish".      Cheesy

"Fluke" in this case means unexpected or lucky. It is probably slang, but I am not sure about that.

So a "fluke stoppage" would mean the corps/division stopped due to some unexpected reason.

Yeah fluke is still relatively common slang in the uk, particularly related to sports. As in 'a fluke shot'.
44  General Category / Fuck it all / Re: Hatin' on BGG on: July 19, 2014, 02:19:24 pm
We've become a society of the Offended. Offending someone is quickly becoming the worst sin anyone can do. Somehow, making someone feel bad is akin to murder.

This pretty much sums up my feelings on the subject...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqPcjm-X5GQ



Yup.

Philip Pullman also sums up my feelings:
Quote
"It was a shocking thing to say and I knew it was a shocking thing to say. But no one has the right to live without being shocked. No one has the right to spend their life without being offended. Nobody has to read this book. Nobody has to pick it up. Nobody has to open it. And if you open it and read it, you don't have to like it. And if you read it and you dislike it, you don't have to remain silent about it. You can write to me, you can complain about it, you can write to the publisher, you can write to the papers, you can write your own book. You can do all those things, but there your rights stop. No one has the right to stop me writing this book. No one has the right to stop it being published, or bought, or sold or read. That's all I have to say on that subject."
45  General Category / Fuck it all / Re: Who are you? Why are you here? on: July 17, 2014, 06:20:13 pm
I'm Jay, weateallthepies on bgg also. I fell into wargaming due to my desire for solitaire gaming, and it seems less of a dirty word in the wargames world. I do have a regular group for mostly euro type stuff, but wargaming is where I spend my money these days and it's where I find time to relax. I'm a stay at home dad, so it's also partly an escape from that and a way to engage my brain in something other than a world of princesses and loom bands.

I'm here because I like forums where people are free to discuss and debate and they are few and far between. I've not been banned from bgg but I'm fairly used to it in political and religious discussions in other forums where people choose to silence arguments they don't care for by appealing to moderators. I remember one forum where they actually started having moderated "appreciation" threads in which "fans" of a particular thing/idea were free to pat each other on the back and agree constantly without the threat of people disagreeing with them. **** that.
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