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Author Topic: Religion  (Read 4275 times)
Calandale
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« Reply #180 on: July 22, 2014, 07:41:32 pm »

Ya know - this was NOT the intention of this thread.

I thought it would be a place to discuss our own religious/spiritual beliefs without
having to denigrate them. Certainly without just entering into name-calling contests.

I'm not going to do anything about it - the point of this site is to demonstrate that
moderation isn't necessary - but it rather feels like y'all are just trying to prove that
thought wrong. :/
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Robin Hoodlum
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« Reply #181 on: July 22, 2014, 07:48:59 pm »

Do you guys have any idea how moronic you're sounding?
As soon as asshole apologizes for attacking, belittling, and mocking Christians, I will stop.
If asshole doesn't, then it's going to be real shitty on this site for a long time.

What would Jesus do, bro?
Forgive asshole.
But I'm not Jesus.

Ya, well, I think you need to strive to be more like him then.
Thanks for your concern and advice.
But I don't suffer assholes very well. Certainly not as well as Jesus does.

And I don't suffer hillbillies...go fuck yourself...YOU are making it worse for REAL Christians so I think they may want you to shut up as well.

Now, your time here is done. Enjoy talking to yourself.

-30-
And you give atheists a bad name, asshole. It's assholes like you that rub people the wrong way when you attack peoples religion unprovoked. Add to that your arrogance, intolerance, and disrespect, and you end up with a thread like this.

Like calandale said, and I hypothesized, this thread is not for bashing people and their beliefs, but that hasn't stopped you.
We have a name for people like you where I come from. We call them assholes.

Enjoy your time here, asshole.
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"If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly"- Colonel David Hackworth
Calandale
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« Reply #182 on: July 22, 2014, 08:06:57 pm »

The vitriol hasn't been on one side.
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« Reply #183 on: July 22, 2014, 08:14:32 pm »

The vitriol hasn't been on one side.

Only partially true. One side (atheists) acted (troll) the other side reacted. Here is unlike BGG where the reactors are punished.  Sad
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pnpfanatic
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« Reply #184 on: July 22, 2014, 08:18:23 pm »

http://thegamebox.freesmfhosting.com/index.php/topic,115.msg1730.html#msg1730
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Calandale
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« Reply #185 on: July 22, 2014, 08:28:04 pm »

The vitriol hasn't been on one side.

Only partially true. One side (atheists) acted (troll) the other side reacted. Here is unlike BGG where the reactors are punished.  Sad

That's why moderation is bound to fail. I can understand people getting upset. I can also understand wanting
to taunt.

This **** got out of hand though - and there's just no reason to continue it.

NO ONE'S making themselves look any better in it.
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« Reply #186 on: July 22, 2014, 09:45:06 pm »

Whoah up to 13 pages today!

The free speech is cool, and venting has value, but I was kinda looking for a more conversational tone for a religion thread.
 
It'd be cool to debate and question with tact, grace, respect, and honest truth searching, instead of winning an argument and just trying to make someone look stupider than you are.

I'd love to chat with the folks here who were honestly questioning, particularly those calling me out. But the signal to noise ratio is just too low.

Still, you guys are cool.

Edit: Michail I Potemkin, I'm sure we'll pick it up again sometime, good chatting briefly with you back there somewhere!  Smiley
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Calandale
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« Reply #187 on: July 22, 2014, 10:20:35 pm »

Whoah up to 13 pages today!

The free speech is cool, and venting has value, but I was kinda looking for a more conversational tone for a religion thread.
 


Same here. Maybe it will get back on track.
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« Reply #188 on: July 22, 2014, 11:17:13 pm »

I don't go for organized religion, as I've said, and it don't attend church, but the universe is a marvelous and wondrous thing. It is so incredibly vast and filled with things that we cannot possible comprehend that it seems petty and small to say that there couldn't be a spirit or creator. I don't mean the old guy with a beard, that's more humans slapping labels on to things that they can't understand.

The universe itself is such an unlikely thing. The very cosmos are a statistically unlikelyhood. So many things had to go right at the moment of the Big Bang, maybe there was a guiding hand. I vaguely recall Benjamin Franklin talking about a divine being as a clockmaker starting the universe up and then letting it run. Seems apropos.

When I hear about things like Graham's Number, a number so large that if you were to count all the things in the known observable universe (and the smallest things were Planck Objects, literally the smallest things possible), you still wouldn't count enough objects to equal Graham's Number, it puts things intro perspective.

It is a gift for man to see the divine in the commonplace. For good and for bad.

I sound like a hippie. F me. ^_^

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« Reply #189 on: July 23, 2014, 01:46:10 am »

Whoah up to 13 pages today!

The free speech is cool, and venting has value, but I was kinda looking for a more conversational tone for a religion thread.
 
It'd be cool to debate and question with tact, grace, respect, and honest truth searching, instead of winning an argument and just trying to make someone look stupider than you are.

I'd love to chat with the folks here who were honestly questioning, particularly those calling me out. But the signal to noise ratio is just too low.

Still, you guys are cool.

Edit: Michail I Potemkin, I'm sure we'll pick it up again sometime, good chatting briefly with you back there somewhere!  Smiley

Yeah there was some discussion before that all happened. I'll have to go back and find your post as I did want to respond to it before it got lost pages back.
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Michail I. Potemkin
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« Reply #190 on: July 23, 2014, 03:11:38 am »

The vitriol hasn't been on one side.

Only partially true. One side (atheists) acted (troll) the other side reacted. Here is unlike BGG where the reactors are punished.  Sad

I don't think so. Just because some opinions on religion are harsh doesn't mean that stating them is trolling. But in the end it will be the same: Religious people thinking sceptics are intolerant assholes and sceptics thinking religious people are stupid assholes.

An I admit that sceptics like me are often assholes rude without intending it. We always want to see proof, we question everything and it must feel rude to other people. But that's just the way it is. We like to question things, we won't stop even if it pisses other people off.


And BTW I'm an atheist...
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Michail
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« Reply #191 on: July 23, 2014, 03:28:16 am »

I don't go for organized religion, as I've said, and it don't attend church, but the universe is a marvelous and wondrous thing. It is so incredibly vast and filled with things that we cannot possible comprehend that it seems petty and small to say that there couldn't be a spirit or creator. I don't mean the old guy with a beard, that's more humans slapping labels on to things that they can't understand.

Why petty and small? Why is there being a creator more likely than there not being one?

I do think the universe is full of wonderous and marvelous things, but I also think it's amazing how much of that we have discovered...how much of that we are slowing understanding. Take the big bang and the expansion of the universe, we have come to that conclusion by using evidence from pretty primitive devices. A couple of chaps get obsessive about bird poo in a radio telescope, and it eventually leads to a new understanding of our universe.

You say we cannot possibly comprehend some things, but why not? Maybe not now but who knows how much we will discover?

Quote
The universe itself is such an unlikely thing. The very cosmos are a statistically unlikelyhood. So many things had to go right at the moment of the Big Bang, maybe there was a guiding hand. I vaguely recall Benjamin Franklin talking about a divine being as a clockmaker starting the universe up and then letting it run. Seems apropos.

I'm kind of with the anthropic principle on this one. Yes it's unlikely that everything went right, but for us to be alive in universe to observe it, that universe has to be the one that supports us. Maybe there were countless other universes that didn't get it quite right. It's pretty unlikely that any of us should be alive, but we are...I'm here to have that thought because all those unlikely events happened to result in my birth and survival.

Unlikeliness never seemed like great evidence of a creator, unlikely things are pretty commonplace when you start looking.  Grin

Quote
When I hear about things like Graham's Number, a number so large that if you were to count all the things in the known observable universe (and the smallest things were Planck Objects, literally the smallest things possible), you still wouldn't count enough objects to equal Graham's Number, it puts things intro perspective.

It is a gift for man to see the divine in the commonplace. For good and for bad.

I sound like a hippie. F me. ^_^

Graham's number seems to me to be proof of the ingenuity of humans. Maths is a human construct we use to model the world, and Graham's number is a very interesting result of that model. I'm not sure it means anything else to me.


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« Reply #192 on: July 23, 2014, 03:35:41 am »

I'm all for having a serious discussion, but it's tough to respond to the flurry.

I've been a Christian since August 2010. I was not a good person. I'm a liar. I'm a thief. I disrespected my parents. I was an adulterer and a fornicator. I never kept God in importance. As a matter of fact, I lived my whole previous 38 years constructing one idol after another. I worshipped myself. I worshipped money. I worshipped comfort. I worshipped the admiration of other people. I continually blasphemed the name of God who was kind enough to provide air to breathe. Anyone who claims to be free of these is just adding one more lie.

I realized that my life could be snuffed out in a heartbeat, just like it did for many friends of mine, and family I loved. If I faced God with all those things on my account, I'd be in trouble, and certainly hell bound.

Just like ourselves, God doesn't dig people breaking his laws. And just as we have a strong sense of justice, so does God. Those iniquities are worthy of punishment. You can't just say sorry and expect to be let go. That doesn't even fly down here either. It's reasonable that the fine requires payment.

God is rich in mercy, and wishes NO ONE to perish. That is why the Son assumed human form, lived the perfect life that none of us have, and willingly took on the punishment of death for those who will simply trust in him. Jesus Chrust paid the fine, and his perfection is given to us.

There are no rules to follow. The whole point is that we couldn't if we wanted to. Jesus did it all. So-called Christians who claim you gotta do this and that have missed the point.

Note, this is not "picking and choosing" as I'm sure I'll be blamed for. Jesus fulfilled the law so I don't have to.

So this is why Christians who assume their own self-righteousness are deluded. They forget or didn't even know all of this. Westboro Baptists are not Christians. The so-called church across the river in Kentucky that disavowed interracial marriage are not Christians. The faith healers that bilk money from hurting folks and fly around in jets are not Christians. Joel Osteen and his promises of having a better life if you just pray more is not Christian.

Now, I have beliefs, but I don't hate anyone. I believe homosexuality is a sin, because the Bible says so. But I am NOT an iota better. I'll never think less of y'all because you curse more than I do, because without Christ I am far worse. Such was I before The Lord saved me, so I'll never have any superiority.

So do you believe you will be punished for your sins? You do say that you can't just say sorry, so why would God let you off because you found him after you did all that stuff?

Isn't part of it just making yourself be better about the way you behaved previously, and wouldn't God know that?
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« Reply #193 on: July 23, 2014, 06:48:54 am »

I'm all for having a serious discussion, but it's tough to respond to the flurry.

I've been a Christian since August 2010. I was not a good person. I'm a liar. I'm a thief. I disrespected my parents. I was an adulterer and a fornicator. I never kept God in importance. As a matter of fact, I lived my whole previous 38 years constructing one idol after another. I worshipped myself. I worshipped money. I worshipped comfort. I worshipped the admiration of other people. I continually blasphemed the name of God who was kind enough to provide air to breathe. Anyone who claims to be free of these is just adding one more lie.

I realized that my life could be snuffed out in a heartbeat, just like it did for many friends of mine, and family I loved. If I faced God with all those things on my account, I'd be in trouble, and certainly hell bound.

Just like ourselves, God doesn't dig people breaking his laws. And just as we have a strong sense of justice, so does God. Those iniquities are worthy of punishment. You can't just say sorry and expect to be let go. That doesn't even fly down here either. It's reasonable that the fine requires payment.

God is rich in mercy, and wishes NO ONE to perish. That is why the Son assumed human form, lived the perfect life that none of us have, and willingly took on the punishment of death for those who will simply trust in him. Jesus Chrust paid the fine, and his perfection is given to us.

There are no rules to follow. The whole point is that we couldn't if we wanted to. Jesus did it all. So-called Christians who claim you gotta do this and that have missed the point.

Note, this is not "picking and choosing" as I'm sure I'll be blamed for. Jesus fulfilled the law so I don't have to.

So this is why Christians who assume their own self-righteousness are deluded. They forget or didn't even know all of this. Westboro Baptists are not Christians. The so-called church across the river in Kentucky that disavowed interracial marriage are not Christians. The faith healers that bilk money from hurting folks and fly around in jets are not Christians. Joel Osteen and his promises of having a better life if you just pray more is not Christian.

Now, I have beliefs, but I don't hate anyone. I believe homosexuality is a sin, because the Bible says so. But I am NOT an iota better. I'll never think less of y'all because you curse more than I do, because without Christ I am far worse. Such was I before The Lord saved me, so I'll never have any superiority.

So do you believe you will be punished for your sins? You do say that you can't just say sorry, so why would God let you off because you found him after you did all that stuff?

Isn't part of it just making yourself be better about the way you behaved previously, and wouldn't God know that?

Yo bro!

No, I will not be punished for my sins. Jesus was punished for my sins. God will let you off because he was satisfied with the payment. Why is trusting in Jesus enough? I don't know, but it's reasonable for a sovereign God to deem what he will accept, and that's where he's placed the bar. He expects perfection, and provided a way for imperfect people to be counted as perfect.

Analogies are tough, because they're often just a pale shadow of the reality they're trying to portray. So I know its subject to be filled full of holes, but here is an analogy. Its like I got a speeding ticket. You can go to court and tell the judge you're sorry, but if he is a good judge (that is, strictly by the book doing his job) then he's going to say "OK, yeah, you're sorry, but the fine has to be settled." Now when you go to the clerk to pay, they don't care where the money comes from... they just want the fine paid. So imagine Jesus striding in, "I'll take that bill" and he throws down the cash. The government is satisfied, and you're credited as an Outstanding Citizen. Again, you can extend the analogy (Jesus won't go to traffic school if you're sent there), so I know there are holes, but like our wargames, its an abstracted picture.

And just making yourself better... no, not really going to help. Because my prior life as a rebel against him is still counted against me without someone who was perfect that can stand in for me. Not to mention, that even when we strive to be better, we're really not, let's be honest. We might stop obvious stuff like shoplifting, but continue to steal from work by fudging a timesheet or eeking out a few extra minutes for lunch. 

Incidentally, this is also where I cringe, when detractors say religion was invented just so people can get through their day. Well, in my experience, nothing could be further from the truth.  My life became exponentially more difficult after being saved. I suddenly needed to become a real father for my kids, by dropping my selfish stuff and sacrificing for them. I suddenly needed to become a real husband for my lovely bride, and pick up the slack for so many things I left on her. I work hard to stay graceful and tactful with folks, out in the world and here on the 'webz. I feel bad (not guilty, mind you) for trashing others... Jesus saved me, the worst guy I know, so how can I attack someone on an Internet forum in hate? I have been made a stronger person, no question... but not to BE saved, but BECAUSE I have been saved.
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« Reply #194 on: July 23, 2014, 07:30:35 am »

Ahhh, a forum thread on religion.

Chum, meet sharks.

Ha!
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