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BBC - The Important Battle You Never Heard Of

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Author Topic: BBC - The Important Battle You Never Heard Of  (Read 172 times)
capt_s
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« on: July 26, 2014, 11:15:26 am »

I saw this today on the BBC website. Found it quite interesting I did so I thought I would share. Something to peruse over your morning coffee/tea ...

Embedded deep in the story are five other decisive battles from history which I thought were coolio too.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-28484146

Not sure if this is the best place for such a post, but there you go.

PS - And I had heard of Bouvines ....    Cheesy

PPS - Oh .... They did this over on BGG. Doh! Ah well. It is still a nifty little article, which is the point of sharing it of course.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2014, 11:19:57 am by capt_s » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2014, 02:03:22 pm »

I saw this today on the BBC website. Found it quite interesting I did so I thought I would share. Something to peruse over your morning coffee/tea ...

Embedded deep in the story are five other decisive battles from history which I thought were coolio too.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-28484146

Not sure if this is the best place for such a post, but there you go.

PS - And I had heard of Bouvines ....    Cheesy

Pretty cool - didn't know about that -- informative article

Quote
PPS - Oh .... They did this over on BGG.

Where's that?  Grin
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Calandale
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« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2014, 02:19:06 pm »

Is bouvines one where cattle get into the fight?
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« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2014, 02:20:30 pm »

The Battle of the Bloody Milk Bucket
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« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2014, 02:21:36 pm »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Bucket

Didn't have much effect though.
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« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2014, 02:24:10 pm »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Bucket

Didn't have much effect though.

Why is Red Sash not all over this???

This sounds like their kind of action! Smiley
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« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2014, 02:25:38 pm »

I saw this today on the BBC website. Found it quite interesting I did so I thought I would share. Something to peruse over your morning coffee/tea ...

Embedded deep in the story are five other decisive battles from history which I thought were coolio too.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-28484146

Not sure if this is the best place for such a post, but there you go.

PS - And I had heard of Bouvines ....    Cheesy

Pretty cool - didn't know about that -- informative article

Quote
PPS - Oh .... They did this over on BGG.

Where's that?  Grin

Can't believe they left out Khalkin Gol...
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capt_s
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« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2014, 02:43:05 pm »

It certainly does spring to mind hordes of angry cattle ...

I am just happy that Quiberon Bay got a mention. People tend to look at The Plains of Abraham as the biggie for French colonial efforts in the New World. I am not so sure you even have a P of A without a Quiberon Bay. At least not the impact of it.

And I am happy that Waterloo was not mentioned (Trafalgar was bigger IMHO) and neither was Tours (heard some recent debate about the significance of that battle too).

The most interesting tidbit from the article for me is the notion that this battle's impact was a first step towards a democracy in Britain and a step towards autocracy in France. Hmmmm.....
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« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2014, 03:26:20 pm »


And I am happy that Waterloo was not mentioned (Trafalgar was bigger IMHO) and neither was Tours (heard some recent debate about the significance of that battle too).


How the heck is Tours not significant?
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« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2014, 03:45:12 pm »

The podcast I was listening too suggested that some historians have called into question just how much of a "push" the Moorish (if I can call them that) incursion was.

Was it an invasion? Or just a raid? The evidence is lacking as per usual it seems.

Also, it seems that there were later incursions north of the Pyrenees which also failed. Which they feel tends to dilute the decisiveness of Tours a wee bit.

It was compelling enough to make me question my previous belief that Tours may have been THE most important battle in western European history.  It is an interesting debate regardless.
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« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2014, 03:59:59 pm »

Ah...it was certainly instrumental in invigorating the Franks though,
and in establishing a far more dynamic dynasty.

Too, even if just a raid, such large scale raids have turned into (or facilitated) conquests.
Think of the viking incursions here. Success breeds success.

In fact, the Muslims were already somewhat settled North of the Pyrenees, at this point.
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« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2014, 04:04:41 pm »

I am just happy that Quiberon Bay got a mention. People tend to look at The Plains of Abraham as the biggie for French colonial efforts in the New World. I am not so sure you even have a P of A without a Quiberon Bay. At least not the impact of it.

Heck, you may not even have a British Empire without Quiberon Bay. Alfred Thayer Mahan, the great American naval military strategist called it "the Trafalgar of the Seven Years' War," with good reason.
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« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2014, 04:07:29 pm »

Indeed. It certainly helped solidify that dynastic line.

I have even heard the not entirely tongue in cheek appraisal that winning at Tours was one of the worst things to happen for Western Europe!

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What they are referencing is the state of knowledge in Western Europe at the time (the so called "Dark" Ages) as compared to the Arabic world. Or the levels of knowledge and arts that the latter would attain, pursue and patronize shortly. At least in Spain.
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capt_s
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« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2014, 04:14:05 pm »

I am just happy that Quiberon Bay got a mention. People tend to look at The Plains of Abraham as the biggie for French colonial efforts in the New World. I am not so sure you even have a P of A without a Quiberon Bay. At least not the impact of it.

Heck, you may not even have a British Empire without Quiberon Bay. Alfred Thayer Mahan, the great American naval military strategist called it "the Trafalgar of the Seven Years' War," with good reason.

Isn't it interesting?

I do not think I even knew about its importance until I played Wilderness War (now there is a nod in favour of the hobby - as a tool towards learning). I believe playing it stops French reinforcements from arriving in New France. It may be a precursor to other card play too (not sure about that).

Then I picked up Crucible of War by Fred Anderson. "Oh" I said...... Yep, it was pretty important.
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« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2014, 04:15:35 pm »

I'd say not tongue in cheek at all. The thing is, the Carolingian Renaissance was probably
largely because of the influence of other peoples - definitely the Umayyads, and maybe even
the Viking traders (though it may be too early for much of that).

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