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Too much for you?

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Eric Brosius
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« Reply #45 on: July 15, 2014, 08:11:02 pm »

There are no wargames that are too much for me.

[...]

There are only ones I haven't gotten around to playing competently yet.

Like Empire of the Sun.
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Paul
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« Reply #46 on: July 15, 2014, 08:49:46 pm »

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Are you having trouble with old-style rules too though? I feel that I can still absorb those fairly well.

  I've experienced this as well, and put it down to age until I went back and played older (and complex) games with no problems at all. What I think has changed is the amount of "one off" rules designers are expecting gamers to take on board. "So and so communications network will go offline for seven game turns when side X does this."

Sometimes these special rules can amount to 20 pages and finding mnemonics to remember them is almost impossible. They are events not set in time (game turn three do this) but tied to actions (sometimes relatively minor actions) that start some event chain that can be pretty significant for the game.   
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Ashiefan
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« Reply #47 on: July 16, 2014, 06:59:52 am »


I find some games too complex to play solo - the work involved isn't counterbalanced by the enjoyment of pitting wits etc... of a ftf. There isn't the sharing of rules comprehension either - it's all on my shoulders. La Batt comes into this category. I'd love to play this opposed but haven't found any willing opponents yet.
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« Reply #48 on: July 16, 2014, 07:32:04 am »

I too have problems reading rules these days

Are you having trouble with old-style rules too though? I feel that I can still absorb those fairly well.

It's as though the whole paradigm for how to present has shifted - IMO towards the sloppier in terms of giving a good view of
what is going on. But maybe it's just that every damned game is so different. Tongue

Good question. I am not 100% sure.

I assumed that a deteriorating ability to focus as I age was the issue, but perhaps it is how some modern rules are written. I have not tested your notion of late except that I was able to read those from "A Famous Victory" without an issue. So perhaps you are on to something.

For example, I had a dickens of a time with rules from the COIN series. Even though it is really quite a simple game. This was partly due to their having unusual mechanics (for me). But also I think it had to do with how they were presented. Now I have no trouble with them since I am used to the games.
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Calandale
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« Reply #49 on: July 16, 2014, 07:41:37 am »

I too have problems reading rules these days

Are you having trouble with old-style rules too though? I feel that I can still absorb those fairly well.

It's as though the whole paradigm for how to present has shifted - IMO towards the sloppier in terms of giving a good view of
what is going on. But maybe it's just that every damned game is so different. Tongue

Good question. I am not 100% sure.

I assumed that a deteriorating ability to focus as I age was the issue, but perhaps it is how some modern rules are written. I have not tested your notion of late except that I was able to read those from "A Famous Victory" without an issue. So perhaps you are on to something.

For example, I had a dickens of a time with rules from the COIN series. Even though it is really quite a simple game. This was partly due to their having unusual mechanics (for me). But also I think it had to do with how they were presented. Now I have no trouble with them since I am used to the games.

Yeah. I felt like an idiot with GMT's CDGs when I first found them.
Then I went and learned OCS - which felt as I remember.

It's not just new ideas though (for me). New CDGs are harder to learn (maybe because
every damned one handles things differently), and so were fairly standard game designs
like GBoH and some VPG stuff. So, I'm blaming the rules mainly.
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« Reply #50 on: July 16, 2014, 08:12:20 am »

On a related note, last week I discovered some of my brother-in-law's old SPI flats. Poking around with Patrol I was struck by the familiarity of the rules layout. It reminded me of those from TSS.

I got the warm fuzzies.
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« Reply #51 on: July 16, 2014, 08:14:11 am »

On a related note, last week I discovered some of my brother-in-law's old SPI flats. Poking around with Patrol I was struck by the familiarity of the rules layout. It reminded me of those from TSS.

I got the warm fuzzies.

Just discovering some old SPI flats would give me the warm fuzzies.
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The Grinch
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« Reply #52 on: July 16, 2014, 11:13:46 am »

Europa Universalis - I spent hours pouring over rules and components but in the end I never actually got it on the table.  That was before the days of video playthroughs.  I'll have to have another go at it sometime.
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« Reply #53 on: July 16, 2014, 01:22:40 pm »

Europa Universalis - I spent hours pouring over rules and components but in the end I never actually got it on the table.  That was before the days of video playthroughs.  I'll have to have another go at it sometime.

Just remember - the rules aren't complete or consistent, so if you've got the original, you're making stuff up anyhow. Cheesy
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manhattandoctor
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« Reply #54 on: July 16, 2014, 07:20:20 pm »

Is it feasible for a wargame company, say GMT, to standardize their rules?

Anyone know how they create their rules? Do they have any standard? Is the designer always given free reign?

It seems some standards might be worthwhile. For example, always include an index, always have a glossary of abbreviations, use a decimal section system, etc.

Series rules get standardized over time, but it still amazes me that a company that's been producing games for decades still produces crap rulebooks.
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« Reply #55 on: July 16, 2014, 07:35:20 pm »

They seem to have a formatting standard at GMT, but no more than that.

I don't think they could do the kind of boilerplate that worked for SPI - the games
are just too different. On the other hand, the stricter formatting rules worked on some pretty
different SPI games (think Freedom in the Galaxy, Canadian Civil War, John Carter,
Empires of the Middle Ages), so I dunno.
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« Reply #56 on: July 16, 2014, 10:22:11 pm »

I am new to war gaming in general and I had no chance with Next War: Korea.  I will have to return to it after I get more experience. 
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« Reply #57 on: July 16, 2014, 10:48:34 pm »

They seem to have a formatting standard at GMT, but no more than that.

I don't think they could do the kind of boilerplate that worked for SPI - the games
are just too different. On the other hand, the stricter formatting rules worked on some pretty
different SPI games (think Freedom in the Galaxy, Canadian Civil War, John Carter,
Empires of the Middle Ages), so I dunno.

I think the old SPI or Avalon Hill rules were all standardized by in-house editors.  GMT doesn't have any editors imposing a uniform style - their formatting is basically just visual, probably whatever Rodger MacGowan formats them into.  Since all their games are designed by independent contractors, you get the sort of variance in rules writing that you'd expect from independent contractors all doing their own thing.
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« Reply #58 on: July 16, 2014, 11:01:14 pm »

I am new to war gaming in general and I had no chance with Next War: Korea.  I will have to return to it after I get more experience. 

That one would be a tricky one for a first game.  All the ideas and rules in there have a lineage with classic wargames, and it's just stuffed full of them.
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Calandale
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« Reply #59 on: July 27, 2014, 05:42:49 am »

New thread: http://thegamebox.gamesontables.com/index.php?topic=34.0
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