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If you love a topic...

Poll
Question: are you more tolerant of flaws in the design?
Yes - 12 (54.5%)
No - 6 (27.3%)
About the Same - 4 (18.2%)
Total Voters: 20

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Author Topic: If you love a topic...  (Read 661 times)
Calandale
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« on: July 09, 2014, 01:43:34 am »

I find myself willing to overlook issues of mechanical complexity, ambiguous or broken rules, balance,
and a whole host of other things in games for eras that I really love. However, I know a local guy
who adores WWI, but basically is unwilling to play any games on the subject - because they all
'get it wrong'. Where do you fall?
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sparty
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« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2014, 06:23:58 am »

It depends on where things are screwy.  Again, it's all a matter of perspective, but for me games on Age of Sail are really tricky.  I enjoy fleet sized engagements so I'm willing to overlook the odd fixed movement patterns in Flying Colors because the bumper boats style of play encouraged by WSIM just gets on my nerve.  I don't necessarily want to be in the rigging so to speak with Close Action either because it's too cumbersome to manage many ships.  I have Fighting Sail that I'm hoping to give it a go and see how that works because I like the idea that ship facing isn't neatly arranged with hexes.  I sold Sails of Glory because it felt nothing like ships fighting in the age of sail.  It could have been anything at all that Sails of Glory was trying to simulate.

All that said ... I think there's something useful to take away from each of the games ... even Sails of Glory.  My hope is that someday I won't be so lazy and I'll just pick and choose the mechanics I like and mash them together for a system of my own.

Here's a follow-up though ...

Do you get the longevity of play in a system that doesn't meet your expectations on a topic you love even if you're willing to overlook it?  My experience has been that the friction eventually gets to me and I just throw up my hands.
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« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2014, 06:41:01 am »

I don't love topics or specific eras, I love rule systems.
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Calandale
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« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2014, 09:25:12 am »

I sold Sails of Glory because it felt nothing like ships fighting in the age of sail.  It could have been anything at all that Sails of Glory was trying to simulate.

Thanks. I'd been tossing this one around as an idea, and always decide against.


Quote
Here's a follow-up though ...

Do you get the longevity of play in a system that doesn't meet your expectations on a topic you love even if you're willing to overlook it?  My experience has been that the friction eventually gets to me and I just throw up my hands.

If I love what the game is trying to do, I put up with a lot and often love it more than more perfect games.

My big favorites from AWE are all like this. It's hard to recommend them to anyone; I feel almost perverse for liking them.
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sparty
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« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2014, 03:49:00 pm »

At the risk of sounding like a fool ... what's AWE?
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« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2014, 11:51:02 pm »

At the risk of sounding like a fool ... what's AWE?

Azure Wish Editions - my favorite company game for game.
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« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2014, 07:29:23 am »

I'm definitely lenient on rules/complexity/design philosophy if I love the topic. Hornet Leader is certainly no simulation, but I love it because I'm an old A-6 Intruder guy.

I got into GBoH with SPQR a few years ago just because I thought the formations of dudes on an open map was pretty cool. I didn't have a clue about the era, so I wouldn't have even noticed if something was wonky in the rules.
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sparty
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« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2014, 10:38:34 pm »

At the risk of sounding like a fool ... what's AWE?

Azure Wish Editions - my favorite company game for game.

Geez Louise!  What are they making their games out of?  It must be gold at those prices! heh.  LGG has piqued my interest with the discussion on GDB, but the Lace Wars games you brought up seem truly intriguing as well.
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« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2014, 12:02:08 am »

At the risk of sounding like a fool ... what's AWE?

Azure Wish Editions - my favorite company game for game.

Geez Louise!  What are they making their games out of?  It must be gold at those prices! heh.  LGG has piqued my interest with the discussion on GDB, but the Lace Wars games you brought up seem truly intriguing as well.

I got EU for $40 new. LGG was my first $100+ game (new as well).

Mainly, they were just fairly small runs.
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sparty
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« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2014, 07:58:22 am »

That makes sense.  I definitely respect them for staying a small publisher and retaining their own design personality.  That's something I suspect you give up when you start trying to sell through one of the "major" publishers...  I mean, how like would it have been to see something as ambitious as LGG go through a GMT or MMP?
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« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2014, 10:32:36 am »

That makes sense.  I definitely respect them for staying a small publisher and retaining their own design personality.  That's something I suspect you give up when you start trying to sell through one of the "major" publishers...  I mean, how like would it have been to see something as ambitious as LGG go through a GMT or MMP?

GMT put out A World at War.  But it was an established design I guess, comparable to ASL
in terms of multiple simpler iterations leading up to something massive.

Most smaller houses are not able/willing to take the risk. AWE seemed to specialize in it.
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« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2014, 08:16:52 pm »

I suspect there is a business model out there for those kinds of experience games.  AWE, it seems, found that niche and just hammered away at it.  Do you know what caused them to cease operation (if they have?)?
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« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2014, 08:31:40 pm »

They put out a game around '05 after several dormant years. LGG was sort of
the same situation. I'm always wondering if another game will just crop up.

If they exist though, it's not in any meaningful way. I'm assuming the market
just wasn't really there for what they were making.
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« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2014, 07:32:36 pm »

It is admittedly a niche thing ...  I wonder why these smaller guys don't band together under a bigger umbrella kind of a "one for all and all for one" mentality to ensure their markets get served without any one particular publisher bearing the burden of establishing the apporpriate contacts and contracts with manufacturers. 

When I interviewed Uwe Eickert that was one of the things he most regretted about leaving the Rio Grande Games umbrella.  They had well established contacts with artists and manufacturers along with distributors which Uwe had to build up for Academy Games.  I mean here's a guy with a track record for successfully starting and selling businesses in many different fields basically admitting that it's incredibly difficult with his knowledge level even to get something cooking.

That was a powerful statement for me.
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« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2014, 07:53:18 am »

I'll overlook issues of ambiguous or incomplete rules, complexity, play balance, etc. but not bad history.  If I love a topic, I don't like seeing it misrepresented and it can impair my enjoyment of the game, and I'll try to come up with house rules to "fix" it.
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