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If you love a topic...

Poll
Question: are you more tolerant of flaws in the design?
Yes - 12 (54.5%)
No - 6 (27.3%)
About the Same - 4 (18.2%)
Total Voters: 20

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Author Topic: If you love a topic...  (Read 660 times)
Sluggonics
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« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2014, 09:03:28 am »

They put out a game around '05 after several dormant years. LGG was sort of
the same situation. I'm always wondering if another game will just crop up.

If they exist though, it's not in any meaningful way. I'm assuming the market
just wasn't really there for what they were making.

I think a big part of AWE just fizzling out was Philippe Thibault moving on to focus on PC gaming with AGEOD.  Although now I think he's sold off AGEOD as well.  I don't know what or if he's still designing anything.  Some searching in the AGEOD forums may provide some insight.

On a related note, I did finally end up buying a copy of World War I Gold, so I can at least get some of the LGG experience without the LGG price tag.
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Sluggonics
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« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2014, 09:19:07 am »

I find myself willing to overlook issues of mechanical complexity, ambiguous or broken rules, balance,
and a whole host of other things in games for eras that I really love. However, I know a local guy
who adores WWI, but basically is unwilling to play any games on the subject - because they all
'get it wrong'. Where do you fall?

I kind of have the "get it wrong" feeling about strategic ACW games.  The Victory Games Civil War design is very good, but it still doesn't scratch the itch I have to truly integrate political elements into an ACW game.  I thought Lincoln's War might do this, but the "politics" in that game, despite having cards with named politicians, was really just abstracted down into points that could either help or harm your military effort.  Nothing has satisfied me as much as the old SSI PC game No Greater Glory, where you actually selected your cabinet from historical politicians, and had to balance their factional influence to keep the country running.  It did a great job of showing that the factional and regional politics of the era could prevent you from always picking the best guy for the job.  Sometimes you had to put an idiot in office because he had the sweet hook-ups that could get **** done at the state level and keep other issues from boiling up. 

And those political ramifications extended from cabinet positions to military positions also.  Most military simulations of the conflict simply prevent you from putting the "good" generals in charge (certainly as the Union, and still, to a lesser extent, the Confederacy) until a certain point.  They never really let you explore the potential of putting the "good" generals in charge whenever you want, and then dealing with the political fallout of doing so, or even having space in the game in which said political fallout itself can be explored and managed - it's usually only ever just dealt with as a penalty.

In No Greater Glory, you could put a genius in the War Department, and you'd get efficient and improved supply and recruiting efforts - but if you put an imbecile in the Attorney General's chair, you'd have trouble managing civil unrest right out of the gate, and especially as war weariness dragged on, and then you'd be more likely to run into things like draft riots or Copperhead agitation.  But you can't put geniuses in every chair, because you have to represent all the different regions in order to keep the political support of those regions high enough to not damage your overall war effort.  So it becomes a balancing act - what guys can I foist off onto ambassadorships or the State Department so I can put the real talent in the War Department or Attorney General or Navy.  I need to have a good number of border state guys in there, or else Kentucky runs to the Confederacy (or to the Union, looking from the Confederate side).  But you can't simply dump all the idiots into the State Department either, because then Britain starts warming up to the Confederacy! 
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« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2014, 09:45:54 am »

They put out a game around '05 after several dormant years. LGG was sort of
the same situation. I'm always wondering if another game will just crop up.

If they exist though, it's not in any meaningful way. I'm assuming the market
just wasn't really there for what they were making.

I think a big part of AWE just fizzling out was Philippe Thibault moving on to focus on PC gaming with AGEOD.  Although now I think he's sold off AGEOD as well.  I don't know what or if he's still designing anything.  Some searching in the AGEOD forums may provide some insight.



I'm not sure how big a part he was there. Two games; big ones yes, but there were others which were well received.
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« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2014, 09:53:53 am »

Cool system is more important than anything else for me. If the system is great, it will drive me to learn more about a topic. I'm not a huge ACW buff, but I've cracked books on the subject because I like playing GCACW series. I can even put up with bad rules and bad history if I enjoy playing a system.
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« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2014, 02:08:22 pm »

Historical accuracy isn't something that I care too much about, unless it's egregious. I'm not much of a history buff so the little details escape me. If someone uses a B-17G instead of a B-17H, oh well.

I want games to "feel" right more than anything else.

If I like the topic, I am more than willing to forgive little sins.
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« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2014, 02:29:43 pm »

Historical accuracy isn't something that I care too much about, unless it's egregious. I'm not much of a history buff so the little details escape me. If someone uses a B-17G instead of a B-17H, oh well.

I want games to "feel" right more than anything else.


That's largely how I feel - but I consider it to be a big part of the historical accuracy.

Getting the OOB wrong? I'm never going to know. Violating my perception of the war
(without being able to understand why) is a serious issue.
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« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2014, 02:45:20 pm »

I don't love topics or specific eras, I love rule systems.

I'm firmly in this camp as well. I'll play anything if its got a good rule system.

I have found wargames to have the most creative and engaging rules systems and the historical aspects just really push them over the top for me.

I think the constraints of making a game system 'feel right' for a certain period and a certain battle/war pushes designers to create these amazing game systems that we all enjoy. Getting across a connection to the subject through rather abstract gaming mechanisms, while still making it realistically playable, is an impressive feat indeed.
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« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2014, 08:37:18 pm »


  My favorite era is ww1 (let's say 1905-1922), a topic that luckily has been getting a lot more love than it did when I started gaming back in the late 70's. I think I'm more willing to play topics from the era. but not any more forgiving of the systems used in those games. I am probably much more critical of specific aspects (events, OoB) or errors in those games as well.

  On the complex side I'm a big fan of "Twilight in the East," which I think does an outstanding job of modeling the operational level. On the simple side I still like "Soldiers" which is just a fun, yet difficult game to play.

  The era definitely presents its challenges to designers, and it's always interesting to see how they tackle various aspects peculiar to Great War.
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« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2014, 08:45:30 pm »

Speaking of WWI, Ted Raicer's WWI Dual Pack of 1914: Glory's End and When Eagles Fight just charged today.  Should be shipping in a few weeks.  After playing something like Der Weltkrieg or Mike Resch's 1914 games, I think Ted Raicer's designs are a lighter touch.  I enjoyed The Great War in Europe, and more recently his WWII title The Dark Valley.  There's a real ease to his rule systems that doesn't sacrifice too much simulation, at least for me.  I tend to have a lot of fun playing his games, with a little less brain drain than the more involved titles.  I don't quite get as much out of them as a historical study, but they're enjoyable.
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