pnpfanatic
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« on: July 19, 2014, 08:35:40 pm » |
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If this is true then they proved me right about ditching the modern stuff after Vietnam. I was looking forward to the Angola and Philippines titles they had on the schedule. Oh well...suss these out and see if it's real I guess:
or if it's BS give a shout out...
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Calandale
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« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2014, 08:52:56 pm » |
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I suspect the system is finding more and more trouble with people really wanting more. If these ideas are true, it may be an attempt to reach those who like ancients more - but I doubt it will add much in the way of legs to it.
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pnpfanatic
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« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2014, 09:01:40 pm » |
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I suspect the system is finding more and more trouble with people really wanting more. If these ideas are true, it may be an attempt to reach those who like ancients more - but I doubt it will add much in the way of legs to it.
Pretty close to my thinking. I noticed how they bumped Vietnam way up the list from the original announcements skipping over the two I mentioned and I think one other. I'll have to go back to my back ups and see what the third title was.
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Calandale
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« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2014, 09:07:15 pm » |
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Vietnam may be acting as cover though.
From what I hear it is very good - AND a lot of people want it.
But, I think the series has limited overall play. It just feels too abstract, no matter how good a GAME may be in it; or how good the history.
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pnpfanatic
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« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2014, 09:31:25 pm » |
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Vietnam may be acting as cover though.
From what I hear it is very good - AND a lot of people want it.
But, I think the series has limited overall play. It just feels too abstract, no matter how good a GAME may be in it; or how good the history.
There again explaining their bumping it up the list. I have one more set saved somewhere (GMT retcons their pages more than VPG and I didn't think that was possible): From 09-12 COIN Series, Volume I, II, and (planned) IIIAndean Abyss presents a game system on modern insurgency readily adaptable to other conflicts, particularly those featuring the interaction of many sides (thus our new COunterINsurgency series). A rich and under-represented history of 20th-Century guerrilla warfare beckons. Next up for the COIN series is Volume II: Cuba Libre: The Cuban Revolution (now on the P500 list), and Volume III: Bush War—The Fall of Portuguese Angola.So Angola was supposed to be third and it got bumped for A Distant PlainThen from the Cuba Libre page at BGG: Andean Abyss and now Cuba Libre present a game system on modern insurgency readily adaptable to other conflicts, particularly those featuring the interaction of many sides (thus the name COunterINsurgency Series). A rich and under-represented history of guerrilla warfare beckons, as modern insurgency offers virtually unlimited, under-gamed topics for the COIN Series. Volume III is A Distant Plain—Insurgency in Afghanistan. Future volumes will include Fire in the Lake—Insurgency in Vietnam, Bush War—The Fall of Portuguese Angola, Long Hard Slog—The Iraqi Insurgency, and more.So Iraq was the one I was forgetting. I know I have the Philippine title somewhere.
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pnpfanatic
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« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2014, 09:50:16 pm » |
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Now I got it...C3i #26 has a short article by Volko and it was listed as Philippine Insurgency, 1980...I knew I had seen it somewhere.
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rstites25
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« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2014, 11:47:55 pm » |
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I suspect the system is finding more and more trouble with people really wanting more. If these ideas are true, it may be an attempt to reach those who like ancients more - but I doubt it will add much in the way of legs to it.
I'd disagree. Your reaction to the game doesn't seem to be the reaction that others have had. Each volume seems to reach the P500 threshold quicker. I don't think the COIN games have shown any signs of slowing down as of yet. I wouldn't read too much into titles getting jumped. After Andean Abyss, each game has had a co-designer. If Mark Herman wants to do a COIN game with Volko, and has the time to do it, then GMT is going to, and rightly so, jump it in the order. I don't know if the other titles have had a codesigner, but moving back in the que could be a result of the co-designer not progressing fast enough, or Volko not having the time to participate in the development due to having to focus on Fire in the Lake and A Distant Plain, which did have co-designers to push the titles forward.
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Calandale
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« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2014, 01:36:54 am » |
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I'd disagree. Your reaction to the game doesn't seem to be the reaction that others have had. Each volume seems to reach the P500 threshold quicker. I don't think the COIN games have shown any signs of slowing down as of yet.
Probably right.
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The Grinch
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« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2014, 07:19:21 am » |
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I'd like to see the Iraq game include Syria. The two conflicts seem to be merging at some levels.
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Ba-a-a-ah!
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KevinR
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« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2014, 07:42:30 am » |
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I just took a spin through GMT's Instagram collection (saving rant on yet another social media thing for me to follow).
The new COIN games they picture include: * Roman things * a map along the St. Lawrence river (presumably French and Indian War, but maybe they could push the timescale to get to early 1800s?). Also a card/chart referencing French and British. * a map of the Philippines
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sparty
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I enjoy the COIN series, but I can understand what Enrico is saying. Ultimately, there's going to be fatigue with the system just being ported across time and subject. It's not a panacea for addressing topics. So, while you CAN move it to any era and subject the real question should be: SHOULD COIN be moved around to any era and subject? In effect, how many COIN games until it collapses under its own weight?
I'd honestly like to see the Persian Incursion system taken Arab-Israeli, Syria, Egypt, Iran, and Iraq if the Middle East modern setting is going to be addressed.
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Calandale
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I enjoy the COIN series, but I can understand what Enrico is saying. Ultimately, there's going to be fatigue with the system just being ported across time and subject. It's not a panacea for addressing topics.
The core design of hex and counter made it across all eras. Was that an error? I think if you don't buy into my feeling that there is something lacking in what the design presents, I can't see why some variations on the system wouldn't be popular in every period/conflict.
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sparty
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Hex & Counter isn't analogous to COIN. One is a mechanic while COIN is a full-blown approach. To date, the three COIN games all have the same basic ruleset and premises. There is customization, but not the same as say between two Hex & Counter games. Cuba Libre and A Distant Plain feel different from one another, but there's a large contingent of rules that marched from the 1960s to the 2000s without skipping a beat. Over time, my belief is that the system will just get tired for folks who are "COIN enthusiasts." I have FitL P500'd but beyond that release I can't say anything is going to be an auto-buy as the first three were. Again, that's my own personal bias in the lens But I'd disagree about a comparison between Hex & Counter and COIN.
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Calandale
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Okay fine - what about the classic AH/SPI styles then?
Those are fairly specific sets of rules which COULD be expressed without changing the rules much at all.
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Sluggonics
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I don't know that 'system fatigue' will necessarily kill enthusiasm for COIN - people interested in specific eras only will likely always be interested if COIN addresses their particular era of interest. That 'new blood' depending on era, combined with those completists who will purchase all COIN titles may be enough to sustain interest in the series.
I'm less bothered by the 'sameness' between games - the system itself certainly takes center stage in the play of the game, but I can get a sufficient narrative in the ebb and flow of power between the factions in the games, instead of getting it where I usually get it in wargames - from actual movement and interaction of units on a map.
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Look out honey, 'cause I'm using technology!
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